I feel like a lot of people who say they'll vote for Trump don't ACTUALLY support him in a sense that they agree with him...they just want SOMETHING to happen. These past few years, thanks to the battle between the two parties, nothing has really gotten done politically. I mean, we got some stuff, like gay marriage was legalized (which is great), but there hasn't been much action. I think Trump voters feel like even if Trump makes BAD changes, he's still enough of a stubborn loudmouth that he might make A change, and that's better than nothing. Like how a kid with a crush on someone will poke them because negative attention is better than no attention.

I think the real problem with the political system is the two party system. There's a reason a lot of the founding fathers, including George Washington, stated they did not want a two party rivalry. Because there are only two "choices" people can make, the parties get control very easily by just having more than half of the folks in the seats on their "side."

Plus, no one is moderate anymore. Moderate people are able to see both sides of an issue and offer concessions and make arguments and NEGOTIATE. But with the two parties, people would choose the candidate within their party by going for the one who was most "in line" with their thinking, which has ended up getting us really polarized politicians who are never willing to give the other party ground. It's become more of a fight between the two parties than it has been something with the goal of making our country any better. Both sides are happy to keep the other side from doing anything, which results in us doing nothing.

Someone I know says she's not voting for trump, but she hopes he'll basically lead to the collapse of the republican party, which will hopefully make way for more independent moderate parties, and fudge up the two party system. I dunno if it'll happen, but it's an interesting thought.

Relax all... Trump won't be elected, you know why? Because other presidents of the world won't take his crap at all and he isn't the most sensible or reasonable to talk with judging by his speeches and idiocy in them. He's a loose cannon. Americans CANNOT lose international alliances because of a baboon who cannot even manage his own fortune well, having lots of debt himself.

This is all a ruse to get people to vote for Hillary and have her win the election, by you despising the other candidate in a massive way. And she doesn't seem all that innocent either.

At least, that's how i perceive it as an outside.

I fear you have an optimistic view of the average American voter

People should just go and vote and don't become lazy during those days it happens. Social media especially is a great tool to use and can influence voting results if more people are exposed to his crap online with actual facts.

It doesn't matter how loud his supporters are. In my country we had a simillar case with one side talking so loudly about winning it, that their faces were PRICELESS when they lost. And this is because they pissed off a good portion of the population here who voted for the other candidate, even if he is quite... meh.

All these against Trump, go vote even if you think your vote might not make a huge difference. Alone, it may not, but together in larger numbers you can prevent a bigger tragedy. Vote, vote, vote. Convince any friend who doesn't wanna vote, to go and vote.

@hanelle: I agree, a two party structure just isn't the way to go. The sort of coalition governments that are fostered in other countries seem much more workable to me. However, the winner-takes-all structure of American elections makes it so that it's all but impossible for a third party to gain ground. Every time there has been third parties in American history, they've either vanished or replaced an old party in the two party system. Proportional representation is the only way that we'd get 3+ parties going. But switching to a proportional representation system would require a massive overhaul of election law (and con. law, to a certain extent). It seems to go hand in hand with a parliamentary governmental structure, not the sort that the US has.

People really need to vote more...but I can't say I blame people for feeling powerless. Especially those who get screwed out of being able to vote by being stuck at work with their employer unwilling to let them take the time to go to their polling place. That's not right at all. National election days should be holidays, since it's pretty obvious employers aren't willing to change the way they operate on their own for the benefit of their employees/community.

...I'm only slightly bitter. XD

Crysta wrote:Relax all... Trump won't be elected, you know why? Because other presidents of the world won't take his crap at all and he isn't the most sensible or reasonable to talk with judging by his speeches and idiocy in them. He's a loose cannon. Americans CANNOT lose international alliances because of a baboon who cannot even manage his own fortune well, having lots of debt himself.

This is all a ruse to get people to vote for Hillary and have her win the election, by you despising the other candidate in a massive way. And she doesn't seem all that innocent either.

At least, that's how i perceive it as an outside.

One of the factors in this situation is the fact that the USA has a strong anti-intellectual, xenophobic movement. There are a lot of people in my country who, if they heard that the rest of the world had united against Trump, would actually be more likely to vote for him. These are people who want to dissolve international treaties like the Geneva Convention, people who want to end the UN, and...oh, I don't know. I can't explain more without breaking my own rule about being civil.

It's TERRIFYING but the truth is there are enough of these people that he might actually win the general election. I really, really, really don't think it's going to happen--and I will definitely be volunteering for the Democratic nominee whether it's Clinton or Bernie because if Trump wins and I didn't volunteer I wouldn't be able to live with myself--but at this point I can no longer fool myself into believing that the chance of a Trump presidency is zero.

mementomori wrote:@hanelle: I agree, a two party structure just isn't the way to go. The sort of coalition governments that are fostered in other countries seem much more workable to me. However, the winner-takes-all structure of American elections makes it so that it's all but impossible for a third party to gain ground. Every time there has been third parties in American history, they've either vanished or replaced an old party in the two party system. Proportional representation is the only way that we'd get 3+ parties going. But switching to a proportional representation system would require a massive overhaul of election law (and con. law, to a certain extent). It seems to go hand in hand with a parliamentary governmental structure, not the sort that the US has.

People really need to vote more...but I can't say I blame people for feeling powerless. Especially those who get screwed out of being able to vote by being stuck at work with their employer unwilling to let them take the time to go to their polling place. That's not right at all. National election days should be holidays, since it's pretty obvious employers aren't willing to change the way they operate on their own for the benefit of their employees/community.

...I'm only slightly bitter. XD

I think part of what's happening is people are transferring their anger with legislative politics onto presidential politics. I wonder if Congress weren't so unbelievably dysfunctional, would so many people be voting for Trump? I'd like to think not. Luckily, there are a few seemingly simple things we could do to fix Congress.

Like, for example, Congress could agree to pass separate bills like sane people instead of mashing all their bills together into unreadable uber bills that NO ONE IN CONGRESS ACTUALLY READS and that is more of a monster of a bunch different bills, the subjects of which are completely unrelated.
We could also separate legislation from appropriations. So a bill intended to fix highways and bridges doesn't end up dying in committee because Republicans want to add a paragraph about not using federal funds for abortions. Democrats then object, there's a long public fight and then the bill dies and everybody moves on leaving your highways and bridges to rot. And it's not as if the Democrats had anything to show for it either, because Republicans have been sneaking anti-abortion legislation into unrelated bills for YEARS.

I mean, I love arguing. I love debate. I want us to be able to have conversations, but Congress is like a really, really, really terrible middle school research paper that has no point and brings in too many references and doesn't properly cite any of them.

Like my ex told me, (I appologize for this ahead of time) Trump will win because of a few different reasons:
The idiots want to see how funny and fuck up he will be making this entire country

and

He is supposed to be a good business man.

I do not agree with him in any way shape or form. As a woman, I hate the bastard with a passion and have no idea how the hell people of this country are so damn stupid they are supporting that piece of trash. Other than that.. I refuse to speak of politics for this reason exactly. I have no tolerance for stupidity. And I get pissed badly because of it. But I hate that freak and will not be voting because the man who I want to vote for has no chance in hell to win. HE'S NICE!

saiyouri wrote:Like my ex told me, (I appologize for this ahead of time) Trump will win because of a few different reasons:
The idiots want to see how funny and fuck up he will be making this entire country

and

He is supposed to be a good business man.

I do not agree with him in any way shape or form. As a woman, I hate the bastard with a passion and have no idea how the hell people of this country are so damn stupid they are supporting that piece of trash. Other than that.. I refuse to speak of politics for this reason exactly. I have no tolerance for stupidity. And I get pissed badly because of it. But I hate that freak and will not be voting because the man who I want to vote for has no chance in hell to win. HE'S NICE!

I understand that sentiment. I love politics but I also happen to live in a state that, honestly, doesn't have much impact on the electoral math, so at least numbers-wise it doesn't really matter if I vote or how I vote.

But my vote does count as a message. So, as a voter, my top priorities are campaign finance reform, student debt reform, climate change and non-violent diplomacy. I considered myself a progressive WAY before this election cycle when everyone started using the word progressive instead of the word liberal for some silly reason--as in, I've considered myself a progressive ever since I did a research project on Mother Jones in high school. Then add to that the fact that I happen to be a secular Jew, who comes from a long line of Jewish socialist activists...oh, and then there's the part where I've been editing footage of Senator Sanders at my job for YEARS so I had a really good sense of him as a person and of his policies...

Is it any surprise I voted for Bernie? However, unlike a lot of my peers, I wouldn't exactly say I'm feeling the bern. I voted for the candidate whose views most closely resembled my own and took advantage of the first and quite possibly only chance I'll ever get to vote for a presidential candidate who shares my heritage and background. But I have no illusions about the insignificance of my vote--it didn't make any difference. BUT it is my hope that by voting for Sanders I contributed to a progressive mandate that will have a ripple effect through our political system.

So that's why I vote, even when it doesn't matter.