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 Post subject: Re: Why was my Wild Knuffel rejected?
Posted: Sep 19th, '14, 21:29    


Illustrator
Firn

Joined: Apr 14th, '07, 00:58
Posts: 5857
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Location: Utsusemi
Just throwing this out there: Starting a Knuffel out bald (Unless it stays bald or is at least partly bald during or at the end of evolution) comes across as a poor attempt of hiding that you were not capable of coming up with enough proper evolutions.

It feels like cheating and makes the first stage too minimal and I am thinking of disallowing this too in the future. :(
Next thing people will start submitting completely naked and bald Knuffel without eyes and mouth as first stage. There has to be a line somewhere regarding minimum requirements for first stages.

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 Post subject: Re: Why was my Wild Knuffel rejected?
Posted: Sep 19th, '14, 22:45    


ml1201

Joined: Sep 5th, '11, 19:58
Posts: 12384
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I think that's a good idea, it pushes people to try and come up with better knuffels if that's in place.

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 Post subject: Re: Why was my Wild Knuffel rejected?
Posted: Sep 27th, '14, 10:47    


Reiya

Joined: May 14th, '13, 20:57
Posts: 1774
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Location: Wonderland <3
There are only few new wild knuffel lately. Don't you think that adding stricter rules will just lead to make people less active ? We have almost nothing new... so to retrain wild knuffel to people with amazing skills, I don't think it is fair :mcconf:

But of course, if a knuffel has no mouth, no eyes etc... it is not enough, I totally agree with you ! There is a minimum, that's for sure :mchappy:
But I kinda disagree for the bald one. After all, even some regular knuffel are bald at stage 1 (or almost)and have lot of hair at the end... so why is it a problem for Wild knuffel ? Or maybe do you mean that people may do a wild "almost bald", but not totally bald at 100 % ? :mcconf:


(Well, it is possible that I have misunderstood what you said, though (my english is kinda lame xD)

It is just an opinion anyway. I am not a staff member nor a wild knuffel creator, so there are a lot of parameter I don't know :mcdead:

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 Post subject: Re: Why was my Wild Knuffel rejected?
Posted: Sep 27th, '14, 15:11    


amalath

Joined: Sep 6th, '11, 23:58
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I don't think we had even one totally bald regular knuffel...

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 Post subject: Re: Why was my Wild Knuffel rejected?
Posted: Sep 27th, '14, 15:39    


ml1201

Joined: Sep 5th, '11, 19:58
Posts: 12384
Hugs: 69810
I think what Firn means is that in order to get enough evolution changes in the first few stages they will make their knuffel completely bald and then have them growing a lot of hair from no where instead of making it a steady growth to long hair. If the knuffel ends up being bald throughout the whole thing, that's different, and even with the ones Firn did that were bald the hair came in slowly, not quickly and can be seen as a small evolution instead of a large one as people keep trying to do with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Why was my Wild Knuffel rejected?
Posted: Sep 27th, '14, 22:26    


Illustrator
Firn

Joined: Apr 14th, '07, 00:58
Posts: 5857
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Location: Utsusemi
I think ml1201 explained my concern pretty well:
I don't mind the fact alone, that a Knuffel starts out bald. I just don't like how people try to "cheat" by getting an additional big change by having a Knuffel have no hair in one stage and full hair in the next stage. If a Knuffel starts out bald, and then gradually gets more hair, then this is just one small, subtle change among many other changes and the Knuffel will need additional big changes to appear different enough in each stage.
But if a Knuffel only has like 2 or 3 changes in TOTAL per stage, and one of them is going from "all bald" to "full hair", it seems like the person who created the Knuffel was just lacking ideas for big changes.


Also, about stricter rules leading to less new Wild Knuffel: I don't think that's the case. Because it is not like people are submitting awfully lots of Knuffel and I just keep rejecting them all. There is no secret army of submitted Wild Knuffel I am keeping from you. People just hardly submit any Knuffel and the reasons for this seem to me, at least thinking logically, that people adopt less Knuffel. I know just as well as everyone who ever did a Knuffel, that they are a lot of work - especially if you have already submitted a few, then it gets harder to come up with new ideas with each Knuffel you make. Now imagine you spend hours and hours working on a Knuffel and then only like 5 people adopt it. From an artist's perspective I can pretty much tell you what people think then: It is not worth it. There is not enough appreciation for the work, and there is not enough gain food-wise to go through all the work.
And people adopting less Knuffel has, the way I see it, 3 reasons:
1. People have already adopted many knuffel, some users have several hundreds of them, and there is a point where you just can't adopt more because you can hardly take care of the ones you already have and you become more and more picky about which ones you adopt.
2. Lack of active users. There aren't many active users on this site, meaning there are not only not many users who would submit Knuffel, but also not many who would adopt them.
3. Lack of quality. I would not adopt a Knuffel that's unoriginal and hardly changes at all. There is no big point in having more Knuffel approved because of less stricter rules (though as I already said: There aren't many rejected Knuffel, there aren't many submitted Knuffel in general), if it just means more Knuffel hardly anyone wants to adopt. I know tastes are very different and I can only speak for myself based on my own taste, but I personally did not find many of the Knuffel that were submitted through the past weeks or even months appealing. I think instead of having even less rules and less original Knuffel, people need to take more effort. (But that brings us back to the original point, where it is not worth to make an effort, because there aren't enough users here to adopt them to make it worth the work)

The only thing which I can think of, that might motivate users to create more Knuffel again, might be if there was some additional reward, besides food, for it, but I have no idea what that could be.

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 Post subject: Re: Why was my Wild Knuffel rejected?
Posted: Sep 27th, '14, 22:41    


Eylis

Joined: Nov 24th, '11, 19:43
Posts: 2010
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Firn wrote:Just throwing this out there: Starting a Knuffel out bald (Unless it stays bald or is at least partly bald during or at the end of evolution) comes across as a poor attempt of hiding that you were not capable of coming up with enough proper evolutions.

I hoe that my Ranger Drow wasn't the cause of this statement, even if I imagine that the answer is yes seeing the date, as started him as bald because I wanted him like this, not because I didn't know how to evolve him.... I rarely had troubles in evolving my Knuffel, and I already draw many of them...

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 Post subject: Re: Why was my Wild Knuffel rejected?
Posted: Oct 23rd, '14, 17:56    


Jiuly_TheBlackCat

Joined: Oct 5th, '08, 13:18
Posts: 230
Hugs: 14039
Mood: Lazy
Website: http://www.gaiaonline.com/profiles/?u=6024645
Location: Italy
Hi!
I made this knuffel but it was rejected because "At least one of the stages is too similar to the previous / next. The Knuffel should evolve more noticably."
I try edited it but it didn't work.. probably because i like the 5th stage too much for change it more..
Spoiler
Image
stage1
Image
stage2 :
+hair: longer/change colour
+cape: change hood/ change colour
+skirt: longer
+shirt: longer sleeves
+shoes change
-minor change color stockings
-minor change at the bag
Image
stage3:
+cape: change hood/ colour
+hair:longer
+skirt: longer
+ nek ribbon
+ corset
+ change belt
minor change at shirt with black shoulders
minor change stockings colour
Image
stage4:
+cape: change hood/ cape
+shirt: change sleeves/ colour
+skirt: change colour + 1 layer
-shoes: change
-hair: change colour
-minor changes at belt, ribbon
+ wand
Image
stage5:
+cape: change hood & cape
+hair: longer
+skirt: longer back layer + minor roses detail
-shoes addings ribbon
-shirt minor change colour
-nech ribbon adding heart bell
-wand: minor change with spell dust
-eyes minor change
-minor change mouth
+tail
i think the trouble is between 4th and 5th stage (but i'm not sure about it)
but i ran out of ideas..
I totally need a suggestion because i don't know what to change for improve my knuffel..

thank you really much for the help.

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 Post subject: Re: Why was my Wild Knuffel rejected?
Posted: Oct 23rd, '14, 19:26    


Illustrator
Firn

Joined: Apr 14th, '07, 00:58
Posts: 5857
Hugs: 285663
Mood: [¬º-°]¬
Location: Utsusemi
The problem is that - apart from the color changes - all changes are just small changes. And the color changes aren't really evolutions but seem more like an attempt to make the Knuffel look different in each stage, without really adding anything.

If you look at the Knuffel in small preview - the way I see them in my approval panel - and if you imagine that the color wouldn't change, then there are no big changes at all:

Spoiler
Image


A big change would be for example if the Knuffel didn't have a cape in stage one and got a cape in stage two. That would be one big change and you should aim for such big changes in each stage!
The hair and tail in stage 4-5 could be considered a big change, so these two stages would be the only ones that have some proper evolution. But other than that I don't see any evolutionary elements in the other stages at all, just the color change and minor details.

I think one of the main problems is that you already start out the Knuffel with too many details in stage 1. While it makes the Knuffel look more interesting in its first stage, it also makes evolving it properly very difficult.

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 Post subject: Re: Why was my Wild Knuffel rejected?
Posted: Oct 24th, '14, 01:22    


ml1201

Joined: Sep 5th, '11, 19:58
Posts: 12384
Hugs: 69810
My suggestiosn would be nix the cape, shoes, socks and maybe start her with just underwear and a bra. Then in stage two turn the bra into a shirt, undies into a skirt and add the bottom portion of the cloak (meaning no hood). Third stage add the hood, change hair color, add socks, shoes and the waist pouch while defining the shirt more. Stage four add the little ruffle over skirt in an in-between of the dark pink and the lighter color of the inside portion of the original skirt, change the hood, hair and stocking color (this to match the over skirt) along with the wand being added. Than in final stage you can have it like it is. The changes of the shirt after what I said should be fine. :3

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