Kingdom of Knuffel

The hardest thing is when these manipulations are done unintentionally (at least, I assume it was). It's hard to tell where to draw a line for forgiveness then.

Like, I've also experienced the "you're too sensitive" thing from my mom. But over time I understand she meant well and just truly didn't understand my struggles, nowadays she's working very hard on being more aware and had apologized for a lot, so it's a happy story.

In contrast, I still don't know how to feel about this toxic person, right now I can see how they may have unintentionally used me out of self-preservation, and I can't really fault survival instincts I guess? But my therapist is helping me see how my feelings were consistently ignored, and then I get blamed for not being considerate of their feelings the few times I tried to speak for myself.

Honestly it's still a mess in my head. I feel like, when you're close to someone, even when they don't voice things explicitly, you'd still make the active effort to think about their feelings right? It's not a deal like "you say nothing you get nothing". That's what strangers do. @_@

Sorry for the sudden weird tangent guys. Had a raw session at therapy today and Processing is hard

In my case those manipulations were unintentional, so I would kinda assume it's a fairly common thing, right?
I can imagine some people being intentionally manipulative, but most of them think they do it "for your own good".
Maybe that's why I hate people saying that. My own good? How is it for my own good that you tell me that I'm a lazy fat, or that nobody will ever love me, or things like that? I wonder. I mean, it's hardly helpful... but I understand people can say awful things and think they are being helpful indeed, they are helping you to wake up or something.

My parents still don't understand this. Although I've forgiven them from the past (they have their own stories, specially my mom, they are children of their own past after all) I just don't put up with any of this nonsense anymore.
Which makes me less sad but way more angry than I used to be with them.
I think that even if we are understanding of other people reasons and feelings, we should not allow them to harm us. It's our own survival insticts too.

Making an effort to think about others feelings. Well, that's touchy. My husband is the less empathic person I've ever met. And he can't do that. Can't.
If I point him out clearly that I'm feeling this or that way he makes the effort, yes, but if I don't say anything? Forget about it. He won't even notice.
Not saying that's your case, cause if they were gaslighting you it's because they knew where it hurt, but that as a general rule I would not assume it.


PS: At least for me this kind of topics are fine.
I like that this forum allows an space for more mature conversations, such as family, relations, sex or whatever.

The main area of gaslighting I experienced, according to my therapist, is being told I should speak my feelings and take care of myself and then being blamed when I do.

See, even if you can't notice things well, it's okay if you accept feedback and do what you can to change when things get pointed out.
But if you blame the other for speaking up, I don't think that's fair no matter how you spin it...

It's been almost a year since I extracted myself from this toxic relationship. I talk to my therapist regularly and I'm still cycling through different emotions.
Today we processed all the ways they had tried to distance me from resources that can take me out of their reach, like my family, my job, my friends. And I just feel too sick to even sleep right now, which sucks because I have a fun day out planned with friends tmr >_<

i think right now, my family arranging potential partners is one of the only ways for me to meet any potential partners. but there are many reasons to be apprehensive about it, because in my country arranged marriages happen within a caste. the whole purpose of an arranged marriage is to have progeny of the same caste, so that resources are preserved and inherited within the same caste (it's why caste discrimination causes poverty; the rich castes stay rich and the poor stay poor).

well i don't want children. so if i don't want to fulfill the very purpose of an arranged marriage, is it the right way for me to look for a partner?

i have to say here that i'm not diasporic Indian or American Indian, i am Indian and living in India, so that affects my position.

plus, i have my own criteria for partners that my family won't agree with. and my family has criteria i won't agree with. i need someone who has similar progressive values as i do. and it's not like i'm unwilling to compromise in other things-i am! i'm bisexual and my family wants me to marry a man. i'm willing to limit myself for them.

my friend told me that i might meet a good person through the arranged marriage route too, but i have trust issues and will need a long dating period. i am willing to meet people the arranged way, but i'll be perpetuating caste discrimination if i do this, and it goes against my own values... i really want to date on my own terms.

people who do the arranged marriage thing don't date, because it's not respectable. (my family didn't accept love marriages at all, they've relaxed that rule somewhat now but there are still a host of criteria acceptance depends on.) in arranged marriage, they get engaged without dating and they have very short engagements. i might have treated the engagement period like a dating period otherwise, but news of a broken engagement spreads around the family and caste circles too and ugh.

the whole process of matchmaking is so odious because people are valued like cattle! how healthy is this match? How good-looking? is their family background immaculate? how much do they earn? and if you're a woman, are you traditional or are you one of those dreaded modern women? IT'S FUCKED UP. extra fucked up when dowry is talked of, and my family has a strange stance on that: it's odious if the boy's family brings up the subject or asks for dowry, but if the girl's family offers it first, it's okay. i have a friend who was told that she'll be valued less on the marriage market because she's diabetic, as if she's a burden her family needs to be rid of. the process of arranged marriage dehumanises people.

i just hate that this is my only option to maybe meet someone, you know? i wish i had other options. and i know that my choice not to have kids is EVEN MORE open to attack if this is the route through which i meet people. my family said they wouldn't force me, and my grandma said nobody's ever been forced to marry in our family, which makes me laugh, it really does. i've seen girls in my family forced, or 'pressured' if you will, into marriage; i've seen girls being scolded and told to stop being picky and 'adjust' when they rejected too many potential matches; i've seen girls being pressured into having babies after marriage. one of my own cousins wanted to abort, her husband and the family made her keep it. in another instance the girl had a tumultuous marriage and the family told her she can't raise kids like that. she aborted her second kid on the urging of the family, regretted it, and when she was pregnant with her third kid she didn't tell anyone about it until it was birthed. the way she raised her kids can be criticised, sure, she's not excellent at being a mom, but that's not the point! the point is that decisions i think obviously should be the woman's, my family thinks should obviously be theirs (and if you don't follow their advice you'll be berated about it forever). women are especially vulnerable to being seen as communal beings, not individuals, in Indian society (they didn't have individual rights separate from community restrictions for a long time, and still lack some).

@Natsu:
So it's really great you are going to therapy, if that's helping you so much.
You gotta be brave to give the first step, saying "hey, there is a problem here and I'm gonna get help to get it fixed".

@Mynah:
Mindblowing. I'm almost speechless. Your diabetic acquitance, wtf, it's unbelievable!
XXI century and people being treated like cattle >_<

Omg Mynah D:
I didn't know that the arranged marriage system is still this strict and prominent in India. I'm sorry that you're in such a suffocating position D:

Is there any way to get away from that system? Go study abroad maybe?

@Amura:
Thanks ^^;; In the beginning it was really rough talking about all the things that happened to my therapist. I just felt so ashamed that I let myself get into such a place. And the first time she brought up gaslighting and manipulation I couldn't even accept it. It's gotten a lot easier now, but the shame and self-blame is still a hurdle that comes up regularly >_<

Because those people manipulate you so you are ashamed of yourself, therefore weak, and they can do as they please >_<


My maternal grandmother was (she's still alive, but now her mind is not as used to be) a narcissist. Oh, was she. Meanest person ever, specially with her own children - but as soon as there was someone else around she transformed into a lovely poor lady, mistreated by everyone.
She did gaslight her children, and I'm afraid my mom was the most susceptible of them all.

I wish my mom had healed properly, but she never did and keeps suffering from it. She still blames herself for so much stuff!!
(I actually believe that whatever she did wrong raising me had its origin in what she suffered from her own mom, and I'm doing my best to not pass it onto my own son!)

since i'm already working here, i'm hesitant to quit it to study abroad. especially as it'll just be two years of study and there's no guarantee i'll find someone in that time, or find a job abroad after i graduate either. some of my collegemates who went abroad for higher studies returned to India after they finished.

i wish i had been able to date while i was at college, but my health was in ruins and i did the best i could at the time. the best i could do at the time did not include dating. also, whenever i was interested in someone i did ask them out. they turned me down, but i expressed myself the best i could at the time so i have no regrets.

there's no easy answer for me. right now i'm just hoping it will all work out somehow.

@0@ too many wordssss~~

So i’m just gonna go off on a tangent and say i think we’re getting a new coworker today. 8U

@Hot:
TLDR: Life is difficult, some people sucks, some countries suck, therapy is useful XD

Do you not get new coworkers often? :3