AliceON wrote: after which Hibari still insisted the eye was wrong while Firn insisted it was right.

the topic of the discussion changed...first it was about the right eye (and it was just a hint, no one forced firn to change her art or anything similar

We don't want you to change your way of drawing or your whole art

)
but after my 1. post firn replied and included Hibari97's art as evidence to defend herself(why btw?...it was MY post and not hibari97's)...and the way she explained it wasn't really nice (a paraphrased version could look like this: "look at hibari97's art, she complains about my art but her art has many mistakes itself...but NO..NO...even as a bad artist you can 'make valid criticism' ")

AliceON wrote: so she asked to close the subject.

and i asked her to suggest something else than closing the subject if she would disagree with my suggestion (

instead of discussing you could just try it out and we will see how it looks like...that would be a proper solution

)

AliceON wrote:and I don't understand why Hibari didn't do that.

i joined the discussion after firn's end-the-discussion-post NOT Hibari97 ;D

AliceON wrote:and I find it... wrong, since it's not Hibari's art and she can't do whatever she wants with it. I think it's respectloss to demand the artist change what they've drawn.

again:

Keiner hatte verlangt, dass du etwas von Grund auf änderst.

(no one asked her to change her whole art)
i mean a 2mm-shorter eye is not a big deal, is it?

AliceON wrote:Hibari's post in German looked very aggressive to me too.

it looked aggressive but the other posts against her were way more aggressive....everyone has some topics where they really get upset because it's important for them so every human should be able to understand this situation...and even while being upset she was able to hold back and not to insult anyone and apologized for everything (which the other users dind't)

AliceON wrote: there have been productive discussions on kofk, when we managed to find solutions together.

this is EXACTLY what we aimed for...a productive discussion...but ending a discussion without any result doesn't seem right to me...

AliceON wrote: and you and Hibari were the only people to even point out the 2pixel problem. this only means that no one else cares about it, otherwise people would have written about it.

many people complain about things (e.g. hangouts/pm's) and they even tried to complain about the things in official threads and so on but they have given up because whenever they tried to give hints or asked for changes they were just ignored or it wasn't acknowledged....
they say things like " i know, i share your opinion but it's nonsense because they won't hear you out, not a single time.."

AliceON wrote: I'm talking about putting pressure, a thing she was doing pretty long.

where? tell me where..?

AliceON wrote:what do you think will happen if everyone demands every item redrawn according to their liking?

if you would ask Hibari how she would change the items if she could it would be a whole different discussion...the thing with the eye is just a basic and neutal hint, it's not like she wants to change the item to her liking she just wants to help because it looks wrong to many users...
i know that this discussion went off the rails but the INTENTION was something different than you all try to make it look like...


and why aren't the people answering who i was referring to? it was on purpose that i didn't mention your post or nellie's post...because i didn't want to argue with you...

is anyone getting the point?
a short summary:
-hibari tried to help by giving a hint
-no one got her point so she tried to explain it
-even after the explanation no one got her point but after firn's end-of-discussion-post i tried to help all of you to understand the point
-still no succes on the contrary Firn wrote something not so nice about hibari
-Hibari tried her best to explain it in german (hoping that Firn would get her point when reading the explanation in her mother tongue)
-Instead of letting Firn and Hibari end the discussion many users began to insult hibari or to make her look bad (she even got reported..but WHY..WHYY...it doesn't make sense)
-NOW- everyone thinks that the only topic of the discussion is changing that eye...

try to see it from another point of view...maybe more OBJECTIVE..
thanks

I feel like posting a link to Disney's Frozen themesong "Let it Go" c':

Cause really, everything has been said, and anything that has been posted after Firn quite politely asked that we just agree to disagree is white noise to me personally.

Let sleeping dogs lie. Just stop, even if you still don't agree and feel like we missed your point (but I can assure you as well as Nellie and AliceON we didn't) it just doesn't matter anymore. Discussion. Over. Move on please, for all our sakes, I think we can all agree that this discussion has long since stopped being an actual discussion and turned into a blaming/finger pointing game.

Let it go, let it go ~

I'm gonna lock this thread.
I've been hesitating because it's an Announcement, and Announcements are here to be read by the whole community and to be commented on and to give feedback about them. But this argument is going out of hand and I'm gonna lock it.

Something to keep in mind:
When a discussion is a matter of opinion, there's no wrong nor right. That's why they're opinions.
But when it comes to a process (a creative process in this case) common sense dictates that the prevailing opinion can be no other than the one stablished by the performer him/herself since you can influence but not force upon him/her your personal opinion on how to perform said process.
Hence -as it has been mentioned on both sides- further discussion is useless.

Explaining the same points all over again is useless.
Fighting to defend them -and fighting back- is useless.
Posting to ask others to drop the subject is useless.
Getting rude is useless... and wrong.

I hope you do not feel I'm trying to restrict your freedom of speech, but I'd rather lock the thread than letting this turn into a war.
If our administrators feel they need to add something else or that the thread should be kept open -because it's an Announcement after al l- I would expect them to re-open it, but as it is I'm gonna finish this argument at this point.



Edit by Firn: I hope everyone's heads have cooled down again so I can unlock this thread again. However, should anyone continue arguing (feeback, including criticism, concerning the MT is of course always allowed, but anything that goes beyond that, anything not strictly related to the items here, is not) the posts in question will be deleted without comment.

We do not want to censor people, but official announcement threads are open for feeback regarding the announced item/feature/ etc. only and are just not the right place for these kinds of arguments.

If you feel like arguing, you are welcomed to do so in a respectful manner in your own private threads. If you wish to criticize my decisions and actions in public / addressed towards me directly, you are free to do so in the Feedback forum, as long as you stay polite and respectful.

I think this is one of my favorite sets so far, I love the hair extension, winking eye and hair clips!

Hehe, just joined but tempted to donate because this set is soo cute <333