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Re: Trump

Posted: Dec 20th, '16, 03:12
by Sanssouci
Pwale wrote: In the world we live in, the man wearing that hat voted for a man who represents pain and suffering to me, my family and our loved ones, among millions upon millions of others. Trump represents racism, misogyny, greed and oppression to a lot of people.... He voted for the hate crimes. He voted for violence. He voted for suffering. He voted to put my life in danger.
This is exactly how I feel. If someone is wearing a Trump hat, they might as well be wearing a hat that says the N word or a hat that says, "Death to all non-white people." Even if they're not literally physically doing something awful at that exact minute, they're at the least very openly supporting someone who is racist, who is sexist, who is homophobic, and who has multiple child rape accusations. And they're also encouraging further hate and emboldening other racists, rapists, etc. Normally I'm very non-violent. But at this point I have literally no sympathy for literally anything that happens to anyone who voted for Trump.

Re: Trump

Posted: Dec 20th, '16, 05:39
by Pwale
Right now, I'm trying to figure out how all this hate fits into the world I live in. Have I been blind to it all this time? Are there ways I encourage it, that I'm not aware of?

Yesterday I heard someone on the radio say: You're responsible for how you treat other people, but you're not responsible for how other people treat you.

So right now I'm focusing on what I can do, to support and protect my community. We've got a hard road ahead of us.

Re: Trump

Posted: Dec 20th, '16, 06:02
by Eva
I'm sorry, I have to say this. Saying every Trump supporter is a racist, homophobe etc. is like saying every Hillary supporter is a SJW that wants all white men dead. The entire problem with this entire election was these sweeping assumptions about the opposition that were made and then perpetuated in the media. This is absolutely ridiculous and barbaric. Not everyone is the same. Not everyone with the same thoughts on politics has the same thoughts about society. Not everyone who disagrees with you on one subject is a horrible person. Why is that so hard for people to understand?

Re: Trump

Posted: Dec 20th, '16, 14:17
by Pwale
I'm not saying every single person is all these things. But all these things weren't enough to change any Trump voters mind, and that matters to me.

Re: Trump

Posted: Dec 20th, '16, 14:32
by Pwale
Oh, and plus....

Okay...racism is a system.

Yes, racism can mean personal prejudices held by individuals, but usually racism manifests as the unseen forces (split-second choices, tradition, bureaucracy, etc) that shape our daily lives. The American system was built on a foundation of racism--not just slavery, I'm also talking about Native Americans here.

There are also racist policies, racist policies are policies that will have a disproportionately negative impact on minority communities. Policies such as school choice, a proposal supported by Trump and his team which also happens to be a system that has hurt black families in every place it's ever been tried out. Or policies such as treating Black Lives Matter as a terrorist organization. Or a Muslim registry. Or deporting every undocumented person in the country. Or building a wall on the American-Mexican border. Or increasing oil extraction, anywhere really but especially in the Arctic, where drilling would destroy tribal lands...

In one sense, we are all racist because we live in a racist system. We can't deny the complex layers of privilege and impairment that we all live with, even if we can't always unravel it.

In another sense, we're all racist because we all have implicit bias. I'm not sure why Republican politicians have started treating the phrase 'implicit bias' like a dirty word--I know they know what it is. Everyone has implicit bias, it's how we tell the difference between a saber-toothed tiger sneaking up on us and the wind in the grass. Implicit bias is not the same thing as racism, but unfortunately one of the reasons racism persists is that it takes advantage of the ways we are hard-wired to categorize people.
I suggest checking out Project Implicit for more information. It's a Harvard Research project where you can take short tests to test your own implicit bias.

And there's the type of racism that is a personal hatred, that motivates monsters like Dylan Roof. But that type of racism is rare and easy to spot. It's more lethal, but less toxic than the types of racism we can't really see but that effect us on a daily basis.

Being racist doesn't make you a horrible person. Being racist and not doing anything about it might.


Also, and I don't mean to be a giant bitch even though I do realize I'm kinda being one right now and I'm sorry about that, that seems like a false equivalency to me. Hillary never said "We're going to kill all white men" but Donald Trump DID say "We're going to ban all Muslims" on many occasions and in writing.

Re: Trump

Posted: Dec 20th, '16, 14:40
by Pwale
Last night, I was at a panel discussion that included my congressman.

He told us to prepare for retaliation because law enforcement in our area does not cooperate with ICE. He told us to prepare to lose federal funding and to have anything that requires approval get a lot more difficult.

That's how bad things are. Congresspeople are warning city governments to prepare for punishment from a federal government for not deporting its own community members.

That's what Trump voters voted for. There's no way to avoid that reality. If you voted for Trump, you voted for this.

Re: Trump

Posted: Dec 20th, '16, 15:25
by saiyouri
That is kinda sad that your own congressman had to say that. I have no idea what's going on really. Last I heard besides his cabinet choices was he's trying to work something out with China and what I read seems like he's trying to do something good. So no idea what is going on right now. Some people I read are against what Trump is trying to do with China and Taiwan but what I read was that it's a good thing because he doesn't want it a One China anymore and thinks us being taxed heavily at the border is bad and why don't we tax China? So I guess it's best to say I'm confused right now on anything.

Re: Trump

Posted: Dec 20th, '16, 17:59
by Sanssouci
Eva wrote:ISaying every Trump supporter is a racist, homophobe etc. is like saying every Hillary supporter is a SJW that wants all white men dead. The entire problem with this entire election was these sweeping assumptions about the opposition that were made and then perpetuated in the media. This is absolutely ridiculous and barbaric. Not everyone is the same. Not everyone with the same thoughts on politics has the same thoughts about society. Not everyone who disagrees with you on one subject is a horrible person. Why is that so hard for people to understand?
Trump is very openly and very publicly prejudiced against anyone who is not like him. He has, on many occasions, made horrible comments about women, about black people (including using the N word), about Muslims, about poor people, etc. He has said, on many occasions, that he wants to create policies that will hurt people who are not like him. So if someone voted for him, they voted for those hateful, hurtful, sexist, and racist comments and any resulting policies. You can't say, "Well, sure I voted for the racist guy who wants to hurt all non-white people and tear apart their families, but I'm not racist." That's not how it works. Anyone who voted for Trump is racist. Not everyone who disagrees with me on every subject is an awful person of course. But people who disagree with me by thinking that some people don't deserve the same basic human rights because of their sex, gender, skin color, income, etc are horrible people. That's how decency works. Trump is so blatantly hateful that there is no grey area on this one. Either you're a horrible, racist, sexist person who is ok with child rape and therefore voted for Trump or you're a decent person who isn't ok with those things and therefore didn't vote for Trump.

Re: Trump

Posted: Dec 20th, '16, 18:39
by Pwale
Yeah...okay, so here's what's happening with China.

Trump had a phone call with Taiwan, violating the One China policy. The One China policy has been the lynchpin of our relations with China for something like over 50 years. There are several places that we kinda recognize as countries (Taiwan, Tibet, even Hong Kong upon occasion) but that China considers it's territory.

We cannot win a war against China. It is not possible. They simply have too many people and resources. And we need their cooperation in order to deal with North Korea (which, remember, has nuclear capabilities and therefore cannot be ignored) and in order to protect our interests in the region, which is important cause though many mainland Americans do not realize this, we actually border Asia through our territories and military installations in the Pacific.

So because we cannot risk all-out aggression with China, up until now we have officially abided by the One China policy while more surreptitiously aiding places like Taiwan. This has been the status quo.

When Trump had the phone call with Taiwan, it appears that was intended to send a message to Beijing that he will not recognize the One China policy. This immediately raises the specter of American interference in Chinese disputes (Tibet). It was purposefully disrespectful to Beijing--and the Taiwanese president knew that. She was also using Trump to send a message to Beijing, and we know THAT because we know that Bob Dole (failed presidential candidate from long ago) has been lobbying the Trump people on behalf of Taiwan for months.

China was very upset. They discussed possible retaliation. Shortly afterwards, China announced that it had seized a US Navy underwater drone from an area about 500 miles off the coast of mainland China. While I don't know all the details, it is equally possible that this was a misunderstanding OR that it was a retaliation effort, to show the US that we're vulnerable to the Chinese. After a few days of diplomatic efforts (also known as diplomats sniping and side-eyeing each other via press releases) China agreed to send the drone back to the US. Then, Trump tweeted that they should just keep the drone. Who the fuck knows why...I guess because he thought they still had it, probably because he doesn't get security briefings. China sent the drone back anyway, ignoring Trump.

Now for the tax stuff....Trump has said he wants to impose a 30% tariff on all Chinese made goods (sometimes his line is all goods made out of the United States, but that's even more insane). That's incredibly high. We already do charge taxes on all imports.

Here's the big thing...if we really piss off China, they can just call in their debts. We owe them a ridiculous sum of money. If we follow the financial rules of engagement, China has the power to bankrupt our government in a heartbeat. But I am not convinced that Trump knows this. In fact, given his history with debt and bankruptcy, I suspect he sees that potential as a positive. It wouldn't be for people like you and me. We, we being the American consumer and taxpayers, would pay the price.

Re: Trump

Posted: Dec 20th, '16, 18:59
by saiyouri
So in another words, it's being reported he's trying to do something good when in fact it's beyond horrible? I wouldn't doubt he knows a bit that this could bankrupt the country but doesn't care. He doesn't seem the type to care much about the people... This is really confusing. People are saying its good and news places on the net, I think I read on CNN, can't remember; are saying it's good but in fact it's bad. I knew screwing with China is bad since we do owe them so much money. And alot of things people have is made there as well.

Everyone, or people who pay attention know that China is huge now and we shouldn't screw with him. Gotta wonder why people and places are saying Trump is trying to do a good thing... This entire coverage is getting annoying. Report the truth not hide the truth for christ sake.

Oh yeah the article I read made it seem like China refuses to touch North Korea. And honestly I have no idea what is going on over in China concerning the N.K.