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 Post subject: Re: Why was my Wild Knuffel rejected?
Posted: Apr 28th, '12, 19:53    


Illustrator
Firn

Joined: Apr 14th, '07, 00:58
Posts: 5857
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rikuchan wrote:OK. I just wanted to make sure. Thank you.

One more thing, would it be ok to make Knuffel based on avatar items (like a summer Knuffel that uses past summer event items)?


No, as amalath said, the items must be your own design.

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 Post subject: Re: Why was my Wild Knuffel rejected?
Posted: Apr 28th, '12, 20:13    


Anonymous

Hugs: 0
OK. Thank you. ^^

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 Post subject: Re: Why was my Wild Knuffel rejected?
Posted: Apr 29th, '12, 14:59    


Onis

Joined: Feb 13th, '10, 14:00
Posts: 13
Hugs: 703
Mood: Nooblet omelette.
Website: http://onis.fi
Well, I was rejected due to different sizes, clothes changing, and having different hairs. :s I'm writing this here since I can't reply to the rejection message I got.
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd12/onisukka/Knuffels/deri1_onispng.png
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd12/onisukka/Knuffels/deri2_onis.png
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd12/onisukka/Knuffels/deri3_onis.png
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd12/onisukka/Knuffels/deri4_onis.png
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd12/onisukka/Knuffels/deri5_onis.png


Please change the description/rules that you have set.
- There is no mention that the knuffel should have the same proportions (in pixels) in every stage. In this case the knuffel's evolution is slow, thus she ages at the same time and her proportions change. If aging is not allowed, please write that in the rules.
- There was nothing said about knuffels not being able to grow/cut their hair, and it was said that the clothes should evolve, which mine does. It changes color and is cut/grown/changes places, the overall design is the same. Same with the decoration, I don't see why the knuffel couldn't decide to change it's place.
- The spots imply that the skin is changing colors (in a spot-like manner), ie. evolving from light skin to darker skin, then finally settling to lighter gray (and being left with few marks in the face of the skin color change). Same with the eyes. Please elaborate in the rules that skin is supposed to change color in particular manner.

I'm okay with the decisions made, although slightly disappointed after going through all the trouble to draw those... but I at least think they should be written in the rules.

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 Post subject: Re: Why was my Wild Knuffel rejected?
Posted: Apr 29th, '12, 15:31    


amalath

Joined: Sep 6th, '11, 23:58
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Location: void~
Onis wrote:- There is no mention that the knuffel should have the same proportions (in pixels) in every stage. In this case the knuffel's evolution is slow, thus she ages at the same time and her proportions change. If aging is not allowed, please write that in the rules.

Writing it would mean base for every stage should be the same, while base can change. However, it is written in this thread:
→ No growth

It's written in few places that knuffel are evolving pets. Growth/ageing is not evolution.

Onis wrote:There was nothing said about knuffels not being able to grow/cut their hair, and it was said that the clothes should evolve, which mine does. It changes color and is cut/grown/changes places, the overall design is the same. Same with the decoration, I don't see why the knuffel couldn't decide to change it's place.


Again: knuffel are supposed to evolve. All knuffel. Not only clothes. How is it evolution, if it first grows hair and then they disappear? Sure, there are few examples of regressive evolution in history of the Earth, but knuffel are rather supposed to go with regular evolution scheme ^^' Knuffel isn't changing clothes and then going with "hey, today I wear bracelet on right hand, tomorrow on left". It's evolving. It's a bit like if clothes and accessories were integral part of body. If it evolves to get bracelet, this bracelet stays and can upgrade a bit later, but can't just show on different parts of body in each stage.

Onis wrote:- The spots imply that the skin is changing colors (in a spot-like manner), ie. evolving from light skin to darker skin, then finally settling to lighter gray (and being left with few marks in the face of the skin color change). Same with the eyes. Please elaborate in the rules that skin is supposed to change color in particular manner.

But you said it was rejected due to size, clothes and hair...?

Honestly, evolution in clothes is hardly seen. She looks like she's wearing totally different dress in 1-3, 4 and 5.
You know, you can always fix her and resubmit?

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32. Pansexual, mentally genderless, pagan, and full of attitude. Born female. Is a cat. Call me ama. I eat people. Ó~Ò_F
Qui-Gon Jinn wrote:Be mindful of the living Force, my young Padawan.
TimTam wrote:ama must be mad. XD
Merrymaking wrote:I wanted to die in a bloody fashion. And now I don't even die at all. I don't get crucified, either. It's stupid.
kaguya wrote:Once I remembered my birthday because the bread went out of date on it. @.@
Hinote no Akai wrote:some other random conversation
I just mostly laugh to my comps
or shout at them
I think his head is ok
STARGATE!
LOOOOL


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 Post subject: Re: Why was my Wild Knuffel rejected?
Posted: Apr 29th, '12, 16:22    


Onis

Joined: Feb 13th, '10, 14:00
Posts: 13
Hugs: 703
Mood: Nooblet omelette.
Website: http://onis.fi
I don't really associate growth with aging. Also, we have wild knuffels that age/change proportions, ie. Grimask and dustbunny. The "no growth" -rule is also written in the explanation of evolution, and it's kinda hazy if it denies it or not, I read it as that growth doesn't count as evolution.
ie. Jabberwocky hatches from an egg, which was denied in the same section?

Grimask, dustbunny, jabberwocky;
viewtopic.php?p=5837879#p5837879

How is it evolution, if it first grows hair and then they disappear? Sure, they are few examples of regressive evolution in history of Earth, but knuffel are rather supposed to go with regular evolution scheme ^^'


umm. The whole point of evolution is to change things more fitting to your surrounding. We evolved from monkeys, we don't have tails anymore.

The hair doesn't just "disappear". :x She cuts her back hair, thus is left with different kind of haircut than in the beginning - and more complex, cleaner and better than the ones in middle, more fitting the her style.
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd12 ... nispng.png
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd12 ... 5_onis.png

But you said it was rejected due to size, clothes and hair...?

The skin was mentioned as being one of the reasons too.

Honestly, evolution in clothes is hardly seen. She looks like she's wearing totally different dress in 1-3, 4 and 5.

The 'scarf' is brought down and part of it is cut into a belt. In the 5th, she puts the scarf to rest on her arms, making a better design that fits her style. It changes, becomes more fitting to her aging.

You know, you can always fix her and resubmit?

Maybe I will, but I'm not really writing this so that the knuffel could be accepted without extra work. That doesn't remove the problem, which is that I read all the rules, checked all the official and wild knuffels, and did my decisions about the changes based on those.

I'm not saying that you're wrong or that you should accept my knuffel, I'm merely pointing out that the rules are not clear enough to express what you want from knuffels. Am I wrong to not want someone else to do work just so that they will be declined?

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 Post subject: Re: Why was my Wild Knuffel rejected?
Posted: Apr 29th, '12, 16:33    


amalath

Joined: Sep 6th, '11, 23:58
Posts: 3104
Hugs: 103169
Mood: hurting.
Location: void~
I'd say they evolve: both mask and bunny. Changing size has nothing to do with ageing.
As for Jabby: It doesn't hatch. It has shell around it, in first stage, but there is no pure "egg" stage. You can't say if it's hatching, it's only wearing shell around him o.o If it was hatching it would be smaller at egg and bigger in final stage, nothing that hatches is in adult size right away.

Going from monkey to human is changing into different species, knuffel is supposed to be more like the same species all time, just evolving~ It changes into something different, but it's one creature changing, tree monkey-ground monkey-human is thousands years of evolution from one thing to another, millions of animal getting born and slowly chaging to give final effect connected to changing life style/living environment.

Yeah, but she can't just "cut hair". Her hair should evolve, not get cut by her.

Well, you said it yourself: scarf being cut into belt. It's not evolution, it's tailoring. And what she has around the arms doesn't look at all like what she had on earlier, nor it looks like it evolved from what she had on earlier. Just my opinion though.

Sure, some things could be explained better, but it would take few pages of solid text and most of people wouldn't read it/understand anyway ~.~

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32. Pansexual, mentally genderless, pagan, and full of attitude. Born female. Is a cat. Call me ama. I eat people. Ó~Ò_F
Qui-Gon Jinn wrote:Be mindful of the living Force, my young Padawan.
TimTam wrote:ama must be mad. XD
Merrymaking wrote:I wanted to die in a bloody fashion. And now I don't even die at all. I don't get crucified, either. It's stupid.
kaguya wrote:Once I remembered my birthday because the bread went out of date on it. @.@
Hinote no Akai wrote:some other random conversation
I just mostly laugh to my comps
or shout at them
I think his head is ok
STARGATE!
LOOOOL


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 Post subject: Re: Why was my Wild Knuffel rejected?
Posted: Apr 29th, '12, 16:35    


ml1201

Joined: Sep 5th, '11, 19:58
Posts: 12384
Hugs: 69806
If I remember correctly Firn had accepted those before she decided to enforce the rules more. She mentioned it here:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=45971&start=2620
Firn wrote:Sorry for the disturbance, I am posting this here because I think more creators of Wild Knuffel actually look here than in the rejection thread:


I would like to point something out, because there seems to be a trend to add a glow to every second Knuffel, even though, in most cases, it has nothing to do with the Knuffel's evolution and is just a lame attempt to make the stages "more different".

"Glows" around Knuffel are not allowed.
I know I have allowed some in the past, but this was my mistake, not going by my own "clear-cute" rules. So, from no one I will actually enforce this rule strictly.
This is no new rule, it has always been there!

And since we are already at this topic: The same goes for any kind of floor, background, furniture, windows, walls, landscapes, shadows, etc. None of this has any place in your Knuffel, unless a chair is growing out of your Knuffel and part of it.


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ImageWish list on profile, too long for siggyWild Knuffel Items Trade ThreadImageImageImage
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 Post subject: Re: Why was my Wild Knuffel rejected?
Posted: Apr 29th, '12, 16:51    


Onis

Joined: Feb 13th, '10, 14:00
Posts: 13
Hugs: 703
Mood: Nooblet omelette.
Website: http://onis.fi
http://i42.tinypic.com/wafxx5.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/b9boqv.jpg
These are not the same proportions. I'd say the bunny is growing, rather than evolving (it starts off a small thing, and then becomes bigger, a.k.a. ages).

http://i41.tinypic.com/4fuauh.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/xd5wyp.jpg
The head and the hands are smaller in the latter picture, and I'd find it weird to claim that they are of the same age.
I'm not sure how else to interpret the jabby's pictures, other than saying that he's hatching and growing.

If you don't want regression, write it in the rules?

Again, even if cutting hair is not evolution, it is not denied in the rules.
Her dress does get longer and change color, which should be evolution regarding to pictures of other knuffels. If cutting cloth is not allowed, write it in the rules.

edit;
ml1201: If that was meant for me, thank you for taking the time to note me about this, but I have read that post before too. Firn talks about glow, clear-cut and furniture in that post and she writes "I will actually enforce this rule strictly", not that she will enforce all the rules.

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 Post subject: Re: Why was my Wild Knuffel rejected?
Posted: Apr 29th, '12, 17:20    


amalath

Joined: Sep 6th, '11, 23:58
Posts: 3104
Hugs: 103169
Mood: hurting.
Location: void~
Hands seem kinda the same to me, in both of them. No visable size change. Just in first they're seen from side, in second his arms and hands are in front of him? In general they're drawn properly, taking basic perspective and anatomy into consideration, if you put your hands into fists, put them in front of you the way he does and look into mirror you won't see whole hand. How are they smaller, really?

Growth as changing size is part of evolution, otherwise we would all be the size of bacteria. However, there is no that big size change between stages anyway, hands and head show up, but I don't consider it growing as in ageing. Ageing would mean it has the same elements but they grow older. Not many organisms get a head or hands because of ageing, they're there from the moment they're born.

If knuffel should evolve and be upgraded version of itself, then for me it's clear it must be getting better and better, not go back to what it was at beginning in any part. Yes, dress get longer and changes color, but changes between 1-2 are rather minimal and hardly seen, 3 gets a nice belt at least, but 4 suddenly gets loads of changes and for me there is no clear way how it turns into stage 5. For me 4 and 5 are two different dresses with the same top part, but not one thing evolving into another. We have around 75 regular knuffel released, it's 75 examples that any person can check, to see how properly evolving knuffel should look.

(0) (0)
32. Pansexual, mentally genderless, pagan, and full of attitude. Born female. Is a cat. Call me ama. I eat people. Ó~Ò_F
Qui-Gon Jinn wrote:Be mindful of the living Force, my young Padawan.
TimTam wrote:ama must be mad. XD
Merrymaking wrote:I wanted to die in a bloody fashion. And now I don't even die at all. I don't get crucified, either. It's stupid.
kaguya wrote:Once I remembered my birthday because the bread went out of date on it. @.@
Hinote no Akai wrote:some other random conversation
I just mostly laugh to my comps
or shout at them
I think his head is ok
STARGATE!
LOOOOL


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 Post subject: Re: Why was my Wild Knuffel rejected?
Posted: Apr 29th, '12, 17:34    


Wren_Fritsche

Joined: Jun 26th, '08, 07:33
Posts: 1903
Hugs: 30325

You have hugged Wren_Fritsche!


Mood: Trying to give all my knuffel houses.
@ Onis: Sorry to say but I don't see anything consistent about your knuffel. It changes heights and weights throughout every stage.

Stage 4 in particular is really thin in comparison to all the other stages even the one after.
You have her skin darkening then lightening again. Her hair growing and then resuming an earlier style (regressing).

Stage 2 is the only stage with blue eyes the clothing isn't even remotely the same to imply an evolution as much as it looks like you are having her change outfits. This is especially evident in the color of the outfits as you are consistent with the gray up until again stage 4 then you get this reddish purple thing going. Then back to a gray purple at the end.

Up until stage 5 the things on her head look like horns, Stage 5 makes them look like head wings.

For the some of the stages there's only one wing progressively growing bigger.Stage 5 two fully grown wings. So what took three stages on the right side magically appears on the left.

I think it's an adorable concept and I'd love it if all these things were addressed but I really think you have to keep with the base, if you can't maintain your own in an effort to try and maintain some consistency because I think that is the biggest flaw and as it is right now I wouldn't buy it.

Besides there are plenty of people who have gotten their knuffel rejected time and again and they just try to adjust for the mistakes.

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Image

:qh: Wren & Shinji :qh:


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